Listening Archives - ...metaphorically speaking

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‘Striving for Fairness and Equity in a Colonised World’ with Sammi Lillie

July 11, 2018

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It is a fitting tribute for NAIDOC week, that I should be interviewing Sammi Lillie on ‘Talk The Walk’ this week. In this conversation, Sammi honours the many Aboriginal women that have supported and vouched for her on her journey into social work with First Nations peoples. Having just graduated from her Masters of Social Work, Sammi reflects on her placement experience of co-ordinating the Child Removal campaign at ANTAR Qld (Australians for Native Title and Reconcilitation). Driven by personal family interests as well as deeply held values and a commitment to self determination, Sami shares the ingredients that have made practising Indigenous policy and advocacy work successful as a non-Indigenous woman. Social work students considering their future placements will find this episode invaluable and current non-indigenous practitioners will discover pearls of wisdom for standing alongside our Indigenous brothers and sisters for recognition and justice.

In episode 24 of Talk the Walk we explore:

Why social work students should consider a placement experience in policy and advocacy work
The current state of affairs in relation to the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families
The state of child protection legislation in Queensland after adopting the principle of self determination in 2017
The need for a national inquiry into the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in out of home care
How you can support the Family Matters initiative to make a difference
Sammi’s greatest learnings working on Indigenous advocacy campaigns and policy development
The social work theories that influenced Sammi’s developing practice framework
Sammi’s concept of a ‘pro-Indigenous theory’ arising out of her interest in the work of Bob Pease on pro-feminism
Sammi’s personal connection to the Stolen Generations and the other motivating factors that make her so passionate about addressing discrimination
How Sammi has avoided major struggles in the work by acting with integrity, honesty and ‘cultural courage’
Knowledge that social workers should have but are just not getting
Unpacking the values underpinning Sammi’s work and life
The mentors and rolemodels that continue to inspire Sammi in her work
Reflections on proud moments, avoiding mistakes easily made, and Sammi’s plans for the future
Final advice for other social work students considering their placements

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.

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Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

ANTaR Queensland website and Sign Up here for their Newsletter

ANTaR National website and Sign Up here for their Newsletter

Social Work Focus, Autumn Edition, featuring Sammi’s article ‘Support for Self Determination imperative to address the over-representation of Indigenous Children in the Child Protection system’. You will need to be a member of the AASW to access this resource.

Like Sammi’s Facebook Page ‘Ally Through Advocacy’

Sammi’s Reading List
Clare Tilbery, ‘The over-representation of indigenous children in the Australian child welfare system’, International Journal of Social Welfare.
Bob Pease, ‘Men as Allies in Preventing Violence against Women: Principles and Practices for Promoting Accountability’.
Bindi Bennett, Sue Green, Stephanie Gilbert, Dawn Bessarab (eds), Our voices : Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander social work.
Bindi Bennett, Joanna Zubrzycki, J & Violent Bacon, ‘What Do We Know? The Experiences of Social Workers Working Alongside Aboriginal People’.
Christine Fejo-King & Linda Briskman,‘Reversing colonial practices with Indigenous peoples’
Christine Fejo-King, Let’s Talk Kinship.
English, Peter. ‘Land rights and birthrights, (the great Australian hoax) : an examination of the rights of ownership of former Aboriginal land in Australia’.
Aileen Moreton- Robinson, Whitening Race, Aboriginal Studies Press, Australia.
Robyn Lynn, Rosamund Thorpe, Debra Miles, Christine Cutts, Anne Butcher, Linda Ford Murri Way! Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders reconstruct social welfare practice.
Tom Calma & Emily Priday, ‘Putting Indigenous Human Rights into Social Work Practice’, Australian Social Work.
Elizabeth Fernandez, ‘Child Protection and Vulnerable Families: Trends and Issues in the Australian Context’, Social Sciences.

Contact Sammi at sammililli(at)gmail(dot)com

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“You Don’t Have to Know Everything“ with Diana Jans

May 17, 2018

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It is a short but oh so sweet conversation, this week on ‘Talk the Walk’. As is so often the case, social workers are busy people and taking a half hour out of the daily schedule is precious time. My guest is Diana Jans, an Aboriginal maternal health social worker with Apunipima Cape York Health Council. After several years working as a teacher with vulnerable children, it was obvious to Diana she needed more skills to be able to meet their needs. Join me, as we take a quick trip down memory lane with Diana and discover what it takes to be a remote social worker.

In episode 23 of Talk the Walk, we explore:

What drew Diane to a career in Social Work after years of teaching in the Cape York region
A typical day in the life of a maternal health social worker and the challenges facing pregnant Aboriginal women in remote Australia
What it means to Diane to be living and working on the country where her great, great grandparents were born
Why her mum would say Diane was destined to be a social worker because of the value, beliefs and principles installed in her early life, as survivors of the Stolen Generation
The soon to be released journal article called “Coming To Town”, an initiative of service providers in Cairns supporting pregnant mums travelling for medical appointments
Key findings from their research and lessons for social workers and other allied health workers in providing a culturally supportive service
Diane’s advice for social workers just starting out in the field and the kind of attributes needed for remote work

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

‘Coming to Town’ will be available soon via the Apunipima Cape York Health Council website

Contact Diana Jans on 07 4037 7100

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‘The Earth is our Master Teacher’ with Bernard Kelly-Edwards

May 9, 2018

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This week on ‘Talk the Walk’ I sit down with Bernard Kelly-Edwards in the middle of his tiny art shop in the thriving alternative community of Bellingen. Bernard is surrounded by paintings, expressions of who he is, a local Gumbayngirr man, and symbols of the deep spiritual connection to country that he shares with others.

Bernard began his own journey of self-discovery attending a cultural program called Red Dust Healing and now reaches out to other individuals and groups to support Closing the Gap in cultural understanding. It is his passion for promoting mental health amongst Indigenous young people using the healing capacity of Miimga (Mother Earth) that is the focus of our conversation today.

His business, BKE Consultancy is a unique mix of multi-media platforms of art, photography, short film, poetry and storytelling. Bernard brings all these talents, along with skills of deep listening and knowledge of Aboriginal Lore, recognising sight and the feeling of cultural sites, passed down to him.

A few times in this conversation, Bernard speaks of the spirit being, the one with no mouth. He is describing the image in the painting, he is seen holding here.

This is what we explore in Episode 22 of ‘Talk the Walk’:

Bernard’s approach to ‘counselling’ using the tools he has found most effective from his own experience and gifts from Mother Earth
What deep listening really looks and feels like, for our own and others’ health and wellbeing
Easy practices you can try at home to develop your spiritual connection with Mother Earth and your self
The elements of life such as water, animals and wind that make communication and connection possible
Lessons for how we are living our lives, from the Earth’s perspective
Awareness – Balance – and Integration; Bernard’s 3 step strategy for healing of the planet beginning at home
How Bernard uses the concept of perceptual positions to assist individuals to take responsibility in their own healing process
Making deadly choices and being in the present moment, using the model of awareness, balance and integration
How Bernard works with the triggering emotions of individual’s past traumatic experiences to change belief systems and move people forward
Bernard’s sparkling moment – a good news story of healing
Bernard’s painting and it’s interpretation of his own spiritual form

Image: Bernard K Edwards

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

We apologise for some of the human-made background noise at the beginning of this interview. That’s what happens when you are talking with real people on the job in the heart of their community. Sometimes you just have to go with it. Enjoy!

Things to follow up after the episode:

Connect with Bernard K Edwards on Facebook

Connect with BKE Consultancy on Facebook

Contact Bernard by email at bkeconsultancy79(at)hotmail(dot)com

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“Telling the Stories of our Lives” with Sudha Coutinho

November 1, 2017

by metaphor with No Comment Community Work Cross Cultural practice Health and wellbeing Inspiring Stories Listening Mental health Narrative therapy Narrative work with Aboriginal communities Occupational therapy Podcast Storytelling Strengths and Resilience Suicide Talk the Walk podcast

You don’t have to search too far to listen to the stories of despair, destruction or trauma in Aboriginal communities. These are widely played out in our media. However if we listen with intention much deeper, we will find something richer and more telling. The absent but implicit in these stories, are signs of strength, hope and resilience.

Listening in this way is a practice that goes to the heart of Sudha Coutinho’s clinical and community development work. Sudha trained as an occupational therapist and was drawn to narrative therapy as a way of engaging her clients in the fields of mental health, suicide prevention and training.

I came across one of Sudha’s more recent projects when I was invited to respond to some stories collected as part of the Telling Stories project in Kulumbaru. Sudha says she has “always been interested in stories- those we tell about ourselves and those others tell about us – and the power in these stories to influence both the storyteller and the listener.”

Sudha also tells a really good story herself. With over 20 years working in the Northern Territory, alongside and with Indigenous Australians, this episode is one bloody good yarn.

In episode 15 of Talk the Walk, we explore:

How Sudha came to be working in the Kimberley, discovering herself and her way in occupational therapy from a narrative perspective
Why moving away from the ‘expert model’ to share our own story is essential for relationship building
What a genuine cultural immersion looks and feels like
Moving from a medicalised mental health/psychiatry model of clinical practice to a focus on social and emotional wellbeing
Indigenous concepts of wellbeing which incorporate spiritual and cultural aspects of self
Practice as an art, not just a science
Sudha and the team filming on location in Kalumburu

How ‘Telling Stories’ came to be; the intent and thinking behind the project and the narrative methodology behind the approach
The digital archives of strength, hope and resilience featuring stories of Kalumburu community; and how these stories were gathered
The role and power of outsider witness practices; and the effect this had re-authoring the Kalumburu community story
How you can watch the stories from Kalumburu and what to include in a response back to the community
Sudha’s biggest challenges commonly shared amongst community development projects and how to think creatively to overcome them
Evaluating a narrative project
A story about the effect the Kalumburu stories project has had on Sudha’s personal life; and what Sudah loves about narrative practice
How listening to difficult stories can actually be transforming in positive ways for practitioners and not always a cause for vicarious trauma or burnout
An invitation for you to join the conversation about how you listen to story within your own practice. Please write a comment below or join the conversation on Facebook.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

Telling Our Stories in Ways that Make us Stronger by Barbara Wingard and Jane Lester

Watch a video and send a message back to the Kalumburu community and the storyteller at the Telling Story project on vimeo

Sudha’s blog about the Telling Story project on ABC Open

Contact Sudha Coutinho at sudhacoutinho(at)gmail(dot)com

Contact the Telling Story project at tellingstoryproject(at)gmail(dot)com

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Elaine plays a key part in the family healing ceremony.

“The gifts of learning and healing – your way and my way” with Elaine Tiparui

October 25, 2017

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When elders speak, we sit up and take notice. My guest today on Talk the Walk is someone I have listened to throughout my working career on the Tiwi Islands. In fact, I’m proud to call her my mentor. Elaine Tiparui is an Elder of Wurrumiyanga on Bathurst Island. Elaine has a long history of helping her people, beginning with the Alcoholics Anonymous movement in the 1980’s, training and working as an Aboriginal health worker and many years volunteering her time for non-government organisations delivering alcohol and drug programs, child and family counselling and support services.

I set out to explore two things in this conversation; firstly Elaine’s experience of working alongside non-indigenous social workers and counsellors and what advice she might have for new people entering remote communities, and secondly, Elaine’s knowledge in relation to the healing power of the bush. I am a real advocate for social workers incorporating Indigenous knowledge and skills into social work interventions and therapeutic plans. While I have been able to incorporate some of this knowledge into healing bush camps and individual client sessions, there is so much more potential with proper funding and support.

I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did, reflecting on a ten year working relationship and the things we’ve learned from each other along the way. It has been my biggest highlight and great privilege to co-create the Healing Our Children project with Elaine. Communication with Aboriginal people whose first language is not English is never easy, so I’m grateful to Elaine for sticking with me during this conversation in my native tongue. Apologies also for the cacophony of community sounds in the background!

In this episode, we explore:

Why Elaine chose to work alongside mainstream non-government organisations in her community
The history of the Wurrumiyanga community on the Tiwi Islands and Elaine’s experience of growing up in the Catholic Mission
What social workers and counsellors need to be mindful of when entering a remote community for the first time
the reciprocal benefits of co-working with Indigenous and non-Indigenous knowledge
Elaine’s gift of introducing new workers to the culture, healing traditions and a spiritual way of understanding the Tiwi people
Elaine’s view of the skills and knowledge of non-Indigenous workers as a gift of healing for the Tiwi people
Self determination and what this means for non-Indigenous workers coming into a remote community
How non-Indigenous workers can build trust and respect in a new community
Why ‘going out bush’ is the best form of intervention for many of the health and wellbeing issues affecting children, adults or families
Elaine teaching her grandson to find yams

Elaine’s stories of healing children and families out bush through teaching, hunting and bush medicine
The gift of listening and feeling trees that Elaine inherited from her ancestors, and the messages trees are communicating to us
The healing power of the bush in healing, mourning and celebration ceremonies, and recovery from emotional hurt and mental health issues
Elaine’s story as a witness to a healing ceremony for a Tiwi girl who had been removed as a baby and reunited with Tiwi family; a collaboration between Child Protection, an NGO and the strong women

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

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Anni presenting in Lisbon at the Contemporary Drug Problems Conference 2015

‘Acknowledging the suitcases that Aboriginal women carry’ with Anni Hine Moana

October 11, 2017

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Anni Hine Moana, my guest this week on ‘Talk the Walk’ has over 40 years of experience from counselling in alcohol, drugs, gambling and mental health to supervision, lecturing and curriculum development. This is a fascinating conversation with a researcher whose passion is to see tangible outcomes for Aboriginal people accessing appropriate counselling services.

Anni completed a Masters of Counselling in 2011 exploring the case for the inclusion of Narrative Therapy in counselling for Indigenous AOD clients. Anni is now undertaking her phD on the ‘relationship between the self-conscious emotion of shame and alcohol, experienced by Australian Aboriginal women living in urban and regional areas’. In this episode, Anni talks about her early research findings and the implications for social workers and other allied health professionals in their clinical work.

In episode 12 of ‘Talk the Walk’, we explore:

Anni’s emerging themes of the impact of shame and the ‘white gaze’ on Aboriginal women’s lived experience
How shame presents itself in the counselling room
The one basic skill every therapist can do to be respectful and develop a meaningful therapeutic relationship with Aboriginal women
The relationship between Aboriginal women’s shame and alcohol use; and the stigma associated with drinking
How Anni’s Maori culture has influenced her research; and the connection to experiences of shame within her own family
Key findings from Anni’s research and support for a narrative therapeutic approach to practice
The importance of listening for the ‘injustice part’ of women’s stories, the effects of racism on Aboriginal women’s lives and the role for counsellors in naming this
looking at your own ‘history book’
Challenges Anni has found in her work and research, how this impacts on her and what inspires her about the future

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

‘Settler colonialism and the elimination of the native’ by Patrick Wolfe

Stan Grants speech on racism and the Australian dream

Tree of Life by Ncazelo Ncube

Aborginal Narrative Practice: Honouring Storylines of Pride, Strength and Creativity by Barbara Wingard, Carolnanha Johnson and Tileah Drahm-Butler

Ben Harper singing ‘I’ll rise’

‘Our Own History Book: Exploring culturally acceptable responses to Australian Aboriginal women who have experience of feelings of shame and are seeking counselling for problems with alcohol’ by Anni Hine Moana

Re-storying alcohol use amongst Aboriginal Australians. by Anni Hine Moana

Follow Anni Hine Moana on academia.com or email at annihinemoana(at)gmail(dot)com

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‘Just Start with the Little Things’ with Tony Kelly

August 9, 2017

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Do you remember the first time when you heard your favourite song?

Anthony Kelly, co-author of ‘With Head, Heart and Hand: Dimensions of Community Building’

I remember very clearly the first time I was introduced to Paul Kelly’s ‘From little things big things grow’. I was sitting in a lecture on ‘Working with Indigenous communities’ with Tony Kelly. I was moved, confronted and teary. It was the moment that a small flame was sparked in me. I remember it so clearly. Unexpectedly, the voice in my head piped up and said ‘this is the work you will do’. So I latched onto Tony as an idol and from there a little spark grew.

It was an absolute privilege (and entirely nerve-wracking) for me to reconnect with Tony Kelly recently and bring you this conversation. That same gentle and invitational demeanour of Tony’s took me back to where my heart for this work began. To revisit, the ‘head, heart and hand’ dialogical community development approach which Tony espoused, reconnected me with the principles that I fell in love with, all those years ago and which has shaped more than any other modality, the practitioner I have become today.

Tony brings over 40 years of experience in community development work both in Australia’s indigenous communities and globally. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Episode 5 of ‘Talk the Walk’ explores:

How Tony came to be working in the Northern Territory after the acknowledgement of Indigenous Land Rights
Learnings from entering Aboriginal communities for the first time
The foundation, principles and technicalities behind the dialogical approach to community development
The skill of really listening
The delight of big things that grow from little things
How participatory development programs differ from service delivery; and why governments rarely get it right
Small first steps for social workers in getting started in a dialogical approach to your work
How Tony’s ‘head, heart and hand’ approach differs from other community development approaches
Tony’s struggles of witnessing ‘white on black’ racism, ‘black on white’ racism and ‘black on black’ racism, and how these experiences shaped his international work
Tony’s biggest learnings from the Northern Territory and its influence in global community development
A funny story about a pet kangaroo!
Essential tools for your communication toolbox
The mentors that helped Tony develop an international perspective to his work
Making sense of the text of people’s complicated lives

Just click on the Play Button below and enjoy! We hope to have ‘Talk the Walk’ listed on popular podcatchers like iTunes very soon. Or subscribe by email via our Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.